Just suppose for a moment Global Warming is real?

Suppose it's both real and predominantly a result of the excesses of mankind, even if it's a stretch to imagine it. Or even if you already believe it.

If man-induced global warming is a fact, it is an enormous fact. It's the product, not of microscopic actions of individuals, but of pervasive behaviors of governments and humans all over the planet.

In fact, it goes far deeper than that. Global warming, if man-made, strikes at the roots of the values and aspirations of almost every human on the planet. Full bellies, families, comfort, disposable wealth.

The issue isn't, how much each individual is willing to sacrifice to reverse the problem, unless that sacrifice includes reversing the human population growth.

History provides a lot of methods for accomplishing that. When humans fail, nature does it for them.

If man-made global warming is real you can be assured someone's already addressing how to take care of it.

Government intervention has a lot of faces, yes?

No, your dreaming! Government intervention LOL those guys are pathetic, that's every last government on the planet. They will use their positions too protect themselves as the disaster unfolds.
You have covered a lot of ground and philosophy. Good to see some deep thinking.

Given your supposition, you are right. It is a completely collective problem, and often is a result of governmental action, not very subject to individual controls. Witness for example China, whose government would place their own national economy over all attempts to "save" the world.

I do not agree though that the only solution is a population decrease, since I have not seen any linkage shown to decimations of the human race and improved climatic conditions.

I suspect that anybody seriously proposing such a solution would himself be decimated promptly!! There is a strong urge to "live long and prosper" in humans.

I see two possible, and not mutually exclusive, good solutions, neither involving draconian intrusions into individual lives,

1. We can put our scientists to work learning how to live in the new environment, and put our funds to work educating people in how to cope and prosper, and finding ways to live in what is coming to be. And being careful not to put crimps in individual rights, or do harm to individual people aiming for some great glorious goal.

Cooperate with nature, not fight it since we cannot prove that the current environment is the absolute best of all possible worlds for humans to live long and prosper and enjoy doing so in.

Do the funding for long-term, not for crazy stop-gap measures that only enrich the already rich, or harm the liberty of individual humans, and don't start and then withdraw unless it can be proven beyond doubt we have started on the wrong course. Human Sexuality tells us the latter!!

There will be a lot of new land opened if the predictions are accurate, and nobody yet can say they are, with so many new techniques that are unproven. But if so, we can use it to grow more and better crops, and make homes for the displaced. Can we not? I would have no problem with becoming a Canadian, or maybe an Antarctican, if I can enjoy the liberty and opportunity as the US purports to believe in.

Be nice to see lots more Northern (or Southern) lights in the long nights.

I might like to emulate the Vikings in their agriculture in Greenland...never been there, but it might be great when un-iced and a nice climate.

It would take a totally different UN, or maybe none at all, to coordinate such, but could be done, I am sure, if people really want to do it.

We also could use the new shallow oceans for underwater habitats, and for aquaculture of food plants and animals. And if we cooperated, we could use power from space collectors to desalinate and pump water to the desert regions, new, but still potentially fertile.

Yeah, lotta changes, but I think Man is flexible, if not held in bondage politically or economically, and can adapt.

2. We can throw out the Luddites in our governments, and combine resources for a push into space. And leave the world to its normal cycles. There is plenty of room in space, climates can be regulated to our taste, and once we make the first hard steps the rest will be easier, with virtually unlimited, to our small vision, power, and raw materials.

Enough people will stay to live on the earth, pollution then will be reduced, and those staying down can live with that and have good lives as the Earth continues on in her course.

The move to space will take some time, but we have already wasted years and years in wrangling, and preparing for wars that never came, so why not now grab the window of opportunity before resources are strained too far, and let Mother Earth recover?

By the way, tho, I have a related thought in the form of a question. I see the curves of 90,000 years of deep ice age, and only a few thousand years of any time when it is warm enough to do much, no land much, etc in the deep ice ages.

Yet somehow man is supposed to have survived and developed through all the ice age periods? How? And all of this development was compressed into the few little periods when the earth was warm enough for there to be land and life not under grave climatic stress?

Guess I am missing something here. IF man could live and grow and develop and expand in the millions of years that the earth has been on this cycle of 90,000 years of ice, and maybe 5000-8000 years of relatively decent climate, WHY ARE WE SO UPSET at the idea of a few degrees more temperature? And a change in life locations?

MIGHT it be that the political leaders want to retain their control over us and do not want to see the results of more land, people being more free with better climate, expansion into new areas, etc.?

I submit our biggest hurdle may be political and economic control preventing us for adapting and enjoying a new modes of life in new areas of living.

Why not tell the global fear-mongers, and those who want us to give up mobility and freedom out of fear of the unknown 2 more degrees, to go fly non-polluting kites, and we go ahead, live careful but not regulated lives, and make new life voluntarily? It cerainly is a "road less traveled by", and might make "all the Difference", as Robert Frost wrote.

Or is mankind not capable of this, and must be regulated and driven and controlled by the few who "know better"?

I would commend all to listen to the Madrigal Fable by Gian Carlo Menotti, "The Unicorn, the Gorgon, and the Manticore." Especially the concluding March to the Castle..."We the Few, the Elect."
Those faces are not turned into the direction for either the welbeing of the people or concern of the planet

They are focused on power ,control and wealth for the elite
Governments do not represent the public they are spokes men for the ****n Elite who hold the reigns

Explain how it is possible that most world leaders are all genetically related to the same basic Families

34 presidents of the USA alone go back to Charles the Great and Charlemagne ,

Leaders are not elected that is a manipulated show for the public ,they are appointed or placed .

Royalty left their colonies in the hands of their own blood
Check it out ,this applies almost everywhere .

The seat of world power is in Luxenburg ,the Netherlands and Babylondon (England)

If we want to change the world we have to do it ourselves individually from all of our homes ,all over the world .

And a global comunal understanding is nessescary for that
Like Global consciousness
However those in control have always been aware of the fact that this is what will destroy them ,

And so for 6000 years they have done their utmost to keep humanity divided ,by creating oposing religions and Wars
under the concept of DIVIDE AND RULE,and hate and strife is the seat of their power .

To escape that is now almost impossible, the divisions and the programming has gone to deep.

The only chance we got is the internet and I wonder for how long we will have this far reaching media available to us.
And too much of the world is to poor to have access to this medium

Global warming is real enough ,
Humanities accelerating effects are also real .
And what the control is doing to speed it up is also real.

But there is a lot of smoke being created to confuse the issues and leave the masses bickering

The big question is why

there are cults whose principles are based on confusion and
mirroring,Pain is pleasure, pleasure is pain
right is wrong and wrong is right ,no means yes ,and so on

Sometimes i get the feeling that this concept is being applied to all of us

And guess where these cults originate
from the same base which owns all of the media by now including Hollywood .

Thats all he wrote ,before the bolt of lightning strikes

Listen to Thoth he was on the ball 36.000 years ago
and he was writing about today he mentions the mark that controls

he said
Infinate Love is the ONLY truth
Everything else is an illusion

Looey the new lands being opened is vital Nature that is destroyed including the fauna ,
To speak like that is to speak as an Invader ,an Enemy of this planet who considers it a place only for Humans .we are not alone in this world as a specie,we are suposed to share it
too bad most Christians dont see it that way

OVerpopulation and limiting our numbers is a great part of the responsibility as a specie of Earth ,that we must adhere too
every other specie does .
it is the seccond law of Nature ,the law of harmony or Equilibrium ,Everybody is welcome but in limited numbers for which there are provisions

All animals and plant obey it ,if NOT Nature responds with predators ,sickness or disasters .
It is amazing we have been alowed to grow into a plague
Arable lands and soils are being lost to wind erosion and desertification all the time ,farmers are in desperation deforesting mountain side to farm on unstable highly erosive lands ,which is a very temporay unsustainable type of farming that soon succombs to land slides and ends up as bare rock impossible to recover

And the farmers have to grow food and irrigate for 70 million more people each year and with less top soil do do it in

The lands that are being opened are not to grow food but to grow fuel
Whatever the cause of 'Global Warming' there's not a great deal mankind can do about it.

We can switch off this or that and stop using this or that fuel, but in the end it will probably make little or no difference.

The best way to see what is happening is to call it 'Climate Change'. I totally accept that this is happening, but I am not convinced that 'we' can do anything much to reverse the situation.

Go back 1,000 years to Greenland. This is about the time that the Vikings discovered it. At that time it was literally a green land, with little or no ice to speak of. The Vikings kept their Nordic way of life, having sheep and cattle etc. Then along came dear old 'climate change'. Temperatures dropped, the place filled up with ice and there were no more sheep and cattle.

The same historical truth can also be applied to Newfoundland, where the Vikings also settled. Lots of evidence of their settlement there. The Vikings called this new found land 'Vine Land' because grapes grew there. No so today. Too cold and too much ice.

All sort of scientific arguments are being used to determin the cause of climate change, principally this is being done by people who I think of as flagelists. These are people who believe that man's puny efforts can actually change or alter the climate.

A single volcanic erruption, of which there are many each year, will probably spew out more crap into the atmosphere in a single day than all of mankinds burnings in a year.

Next time there is such an erruption, take a look at the filth belching out of it, that's if the Greens will allow it to be seen on TV by a gullible public.

Humankind is not the cause of Climate Change [global warming], just part of the cause and only a very small part.

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